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Post by hallmackem on Feb 21, 2008 16:52:17 GMT
But surely if the home had never existed, we couldn't have a home. We would be without a home, conceptual, spiritual, physical or whatever. We would be homeless without knowing. But if we don't know it and nobody knows it, then are we still it? Is it in fact that we are only certain things because of the label put on us by someone? If no-one knows we are homeless then how could we still be homeles? Because a home would never have existed, we are without home. Albeit we never would have had the chance to have a home but all the same... we would be homeless. Someone infected with HIV might not know it but they still are. God might exist but you don't TRULY know it because you can't.
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 21, 2008 16:54:39 GMT
Sounds good to me Ben, i think (as i said in my earlier post) is that it could also be down to your personal interpretation of a good person. Good people exist but what constitutes a good person varies with each individual.
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 21, 2008 16:58:11 GMT
But if we don't know it and nobody knows it, then are we still it? Is it in fact that we are only certain things because of the label put on us by someone? If no-one knows we are homeless then how could we still be homeles? Because a home would never have existed, we are without home. Albeit we never would have had the chance to have a home but all the same... we would be homeless. Someone infected with HIV might not know it but they still are. God might exist but you don't TRULY know it because you can't. Fair point but if the concept of a home never existed, how could we be considered homeless, except by someone who has the concept of a home - which would be from another world or whatever.
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 21, 2008 16:59:10 GMT
Relating to the homes question: Can we class the earth as our home? The universe? This dimension? If yes then if homes had never been invented would we exist to be homeless? Would we be homeless in our none existant state?
AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 21, 2008 16:59:52 GMT
Because a home would never have existed, we are without home. Albeit we never would have had the chance to have a home but all the same... we would be homeless. Someone infected with HIV might not know it but they still are. God might exist but you don't TRULY know it because you can't. Fair point but if the concept of a home never existed, how could we be considered homeless, except by someone who has the concept of a home - which would be from another world or whatever. Like i said, we would be homeless without realising it.
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Post by damo149 on Feb 21, 2008 17:04:17 GMT
yo, hows you hall mackem??? long time no talk...
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 21, 2008 17:06:16 GMT
Fair point but if the concept of a home never existed, how could we be considered homeless, except by someone who has the concept of a home - which would be from another world or whatever. Like i said, we would be homeless without realising it. Maybe but if we don't realise it then are we still homeless? We've pretty much agreed that we view the world through our own perceptions, so if we don't perceive ourselves as homeless - then surely, we cease to be homeless.
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 21, 2008 17:08:21 GMT
yo, hows you hall mackem??? long time no talk... Damo! It's been a while like. I'm doing great cheers. Yourself?
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 21, 2008 17:09:14 GMT
Like i said, we would be homeless without realising it. Maybe but if we don't realise it then are we still homeless? We've pretty much agreed that we view the world through our own perceptions, so if we don't perceive ourselves as homeless - then surely, we cease to be homeless. I haven't agreed to anything, you just percieved that
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 21, 2008 17:12:25 GMT
Ok, i've just perceived it - but i don't perceive that i'm homless (in this world where homes have never existed), so i'm not homeless right? I live through my perceptions!!
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Post by damo149 on Feb 21, 2008 17:12:44 GMT
not bad m8, i will be on here a lot more now:-) catch u 2 moz!
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 21, 2008 17:14:12 GMT
I'd like to think it's because of my posting on 606 that damo will be on here more now but perhaps not!!!!
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 21, 2008 17:14:43 GMT
not bad m8, i will be on here a lot more now:-) catch u 2 moz! Good to hear, catch ya later.
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 21, 2008 18:24:24 GMT
Perhaps the most important question one an ask... when you close the fridge door, does the light really go off?
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Post by Bismarck on Feb 21, 2008 19:32:46 GMT
Knew this was around here somewhere. It's for the perceptionquestion. "All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are all one conciousness experiencing it self subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves." Then we are......borg
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 22, 2008 1:18:09 GMT
Interesting point that was on the Matrix movie. The little Buddhist boy in the oracle's house was bending a spoon. When he explained to Neo how he did it he said this "don't try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead try to realise it isn't the spoon that bends, it is only yourself." I think that's what we've been getting at here, interestingly though it wasn't just one persons reality, they both saw the spoon bend, or appear to.
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 22, 2008 18:04:19 GMT
That's interesting Ben. They both saw the spoon bend but of course there are going to be some parallels between people's perceptions. Actually i think we've covered that to death now tbh.
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Post by Bismarck on Feb 22, 2008 23:06:40 GMT
Interesting point that was on the Matrix movie. The little Buddhist boy in the oracle's house was bending a spoon. When he explained to Neo how he did it he said this "don't try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead try to realise it isn't the spoon that bends, it is only yourself." I think that's what we've been getting at here, interestingly though it wasn't just one persons reality, they both saw the spoon bend, or appear to. It is possible that you are in a computer simulation.....? In fact it is unlikely that you could ever prove conclusively or otherwise whether you are in a computer simulation or not..... The interesting point here is that what we assume to be the case may not be..... It could be that a God exists and created the universe, or it could be some super powerful species created a universe for its own amusement - say it lives for infinity - and that's a long time to occupy yourself - and engineered it so that sporadically intelligent life would spring up......... You could be part of this universe or a sophisticated entity within a simulation.............! You will never know for sure, so for the sake of headspin and sanity its best not to give it too much thought......
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 23, 2008 22:17:49 GMT
I dunno Bissy, i reckon it'd be quite cool. Would be interesting to see the reaction of certain celebrities who think the world revolves around them when they were told that they were merely play things of a higher species. Awesome huh.
Certainly fun to think about, don't you reckon my figments?
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Post by Bismarck on Feb 24, 2008 11:31:11 GMT
I would like to meet one of this philosophers and ask some silly questions...like,why do my balls titch?What has that got to do with the great scheme of things......lol
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Post by Bismarck on Feb 25, 2008 17:04:06 GMT
Right.....I asked this question on a Philosophy site....."Where did the Universe come from?"...here is the answer I like the most.....
This is one of the greatest puzzles, as it seems so counter-intuitive to be able to answer this with 'yes'. However, if we agree to the fact that we are here (and hence there is something), we must accept one of these two additional facts: - something came from nothing - there has always been something
Of the two, the second seems more surprising than the first. If there has always been something, then there is just no answer to the questions 'when was the universe created, who by (if anyone) and how'.
At least if something can come from nothing, there are answers to this question. Therefore it is believe something can come from nothing, as we are here. The problem is answering how this can happen.
Quantum theory states that small particles can come into existence temporarily, then pop out again, by borrowing energy from the universe. Perhaps over some unimaginable period of time, the build up of particles popping into existence was significant and physical laws about particular interactions governed the rest. But the honest answer is simply that no-one really knows how so much matter as there is in the universe could come from nothing!
It crosses a few "t's" and dots a few "i's" for me.......
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Post by hallmackem on Feb 25, 2008 17:27:04 GMT
The universe could possibly be dated though. Even if something had always existed, it doesn't mean it existed as this universe (Multiverse Theory).
Which site was that on Otto?
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 25, 2008 18:48:45 GMT
As i am still disputing the fact that nothingness can ever exist - the second possibility is more interesting to me.
It also begs the question - does time have a beginning? I may have partly answered that in the phrasing of the question. Logic suggests the question should have been asked in the past tense - did time have a beginning - but that sounds strange.
The fact that the question is naturally phrased in the present tense may suggest the time does not/did not have a beginning - so perhaps is endless. Certainly worth considering!
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Post by thefullback on Feb 25, 2008 18:53:21 GMT
If time has no beginning and no end then it must be in a loop .. is that why clocks are mainly round.
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 25, 2008 18:58:02 GMT
I like it fullback - i have never considered it like that but it's true. I will now never look at clocks in the same way again!
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Post by Bismarck on Feb 25, 2008 19:08:17 GMT
The universe could possibly be dated though. Even if something had always existed, it doesn't mean it existed as this universe (Multiverse Theory). Which site was that on Otto? Stanford University....
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Post by thefullback on Feb 25, 2008 19:18:06 GMT
Could it be that when the answer to how and when it all began is found it will infact become the end of it all .. trying to put it very simply ... to prove the beginning you have to have the end
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Feb 25, 2008 19:54:55 GMT
Yep sounds realistic fullback - then the cycle starts again. Like in Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy - if you knew thge question to life the universe and everything then you wouldn't know the answer and vice versa.
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Post by Lukiebakercafc on Mar 3, 2008 22:01:12 GMT
Just re-read this thread - love it absolutely love it!! Nothingness is merely a concept and can't exist without something - amazing stuff!!
Cheers Ben, Bissy, fullback, smokie and everyone who contributed to this thread - it was great fun for a boring Wednesday afternoon!!
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Post by JoeLatics on Mar 4, 2008 18:45:28 GMT
*ahem* how do you know you exist? I have no proof you exist! I could be a monster on another planet dreaming that Im a non existant human being floating round on this rock! I have no proof you exist!
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